Gettext: Is it a good idea for the message ID to b

问题:

We're getting ready to translate our PHP website into various languages, and the gettext support in PHP looks like the way to go.

All the tutorials I see recommend using the english text as the message ID, i.e.

gettext("Hi there!")

But is that really a good idea? Let's say someone in marketing wants to change the text to "Hi there, y'all!". Then don't you have to update all the language files because that string -- which is actually the message ID -- has changed?

Is it better to have some kind of generic ID, like "hello.message", and an english translations file?

回答1:

I use meaningful IDs such as "welcome_back_1" which would be "welcome back, %1" etc. I always have English as my "base" language so in the worst case scenario when a specific language doesn't have a message ID, I fall-back on English.

I don't like to use actual English phrases as message ID's because if the English changes so does the ID. This might not affect you much if you use some automated tools, but it bothers me. I don't like to use simple codes (like msg3975) because they don't mean anything, so reading the code is more difficult unless you litter comments everywhere.

回答2:

Wow, I'm surprised that no one is advocating using the English as a key. I used this style in a couple of software projects, and IMHO it worked out pretty well. The code readability is great, and if you change an English string it becomes obvious that the message needs to be considered for re-translation (which is a good thing).

In the case that you're only correcting spelling or making some other change that definitely doesn't require translation, it's a simple matter to update the IDs for that string in the resource files.

That said, I'm currently evaluating whether or not to carry this way of doing I18N forward to a new project, so it's good to hear some thoughts on why it might not be a good idea.

回答3:

I strongly disagree with Richard Harrisons answer about which he states it is "the only way". Dear asker, do not trust an answer that states it is the only way, because the "only way" doesn't exist.

Here is another way which IMHO has a few advantages over Richards approach:

• Start with using the proto-version of the English string as Original.
• Don't display these proto-strings but create a translation file for English nontheless
• Copy the proto-strings to the translation for the beginning

Advantages:

• readable code
• text in your code is very close if not identical to what your view displays
• if you want to change the English text, you don't change the proto-string but the translation
• if you want to translate the same thing twice, just write a slightly different proto-string or just add 'version for this and that' and you still have a perfectly readable code

回答4:

The reason for the IDs being English is so that the ID is returned if the translation fails for whatever reason - the translation for the current language and token not being available, or other errors. That of course assumes the developer is writing the original English text, not some documentation person.

Also if the English text changes then probably the other translations need to be updated?

In practice we also use Pure IDs rather than then English text, but it does mean we have to do lots of extra work to default to English.

回答5:

In a word don't do this.

The same word/phrase in English can often enough have more than one meaning, and each meaning a different translation.

Define mnemonic ids for your strings,and treat English as just another language.

Agree with other posters that id numbers in code are a nightmare for code readability.

Ex localisation engineer

回答6:

There is a lot to consider and answer is not so easy.

Using plain English

Pros

• Easy to write and READ code
• In most cases, it works even without running translation functions in code

Cons

• Involved programmers must be also good copywriters :)
• You need to write correct precise texts fully in English, even in the case that first language you need to run is something else (ie we're starting lof of projects in Czech language and we're localizing them to EN later).
• In a lot of cases, you need to use contexts. If you fail to do it from begginig, it's a lot of work to add them later. To explain: In English, one word can have many different meands - and you need to use contexts to differentiate them - and it's not always so easy (order = sort order, or it can be purchase order).
• It can be very hard to correct English later in the process. Corrections of the source strings will very often lead to loss of already translated phrases. It's very frustrating to loose translation to 3 different languages just because you corrected English.

Using keys

Pros

• You can use localization platform functions even for the English language. I.e. we're using the lovely Crowdin platform. There is a lot of handy tools - or rather a complete workflow - for translation management: voting for different translations, translation history, glossaries (which helps to keep translation/language coherent), proofing, approval, etc. Using keys make this process much more smooth.

• It's much easier to send Engish texts for proofreading etc. Usually, it's not a good idea to let copywriters to modify your code directly :)

Cons

• More complicated project setup.
• Harder to use %d, %s etc.

回答7:

Haven't you already answered your own question? :)

Clearly, if you intend to support i18n of your application, you should treat all the language implementations the same. If someone decides a string needs to change, you make a similar change in all the language files. The metadata with the checkin should group all the language files together in the same change. If your "default" language is handled differently, that makes it more difficult to maintain.

回答8:

At the end of the day, a translator should be able to sit down and change the texts for every language (so they match in meaning) without having to involve the programmer that already did his/her job.

This makes me feel like the proper answer is to use a modified version of gettext where you put strings like this

_(id, backup_text, context)

_('ABOUT_ME', 'About Me', 'HOMEPAGE')

context being optional

why like this? because you need to identify text in the system using unique ID's not english text that could get repeated elsewhere.

You should also keep the backup, id and context in the same place in your code to reduce discrepancies.

The id's also have to be readable, which brings in the problem of synonyms and duplicate use (even as ids), we could prefix the ids like this "HOMEPAGE_ABOUT_ME" or "MAIL_LETTER", but

1. people forget to do this at the start and changing it later is a problem
2. its more flexible for the system to be able to group both by id and context

which is why I also added the context variable at the end

the backup text can be pretty much anything, could even be "[ABOUT_ME@HOMEPAGE text failed to load, please contact [e-mail]]"

It won't work with the current gettext editing programs like "poedit", but I think you can define custom variable names for translations like just "t()" without the underscore at the start.

I know that gettext also has support for contexts, but its not very well documented or widely used.

P.S. I'm not sure about the best variable order to enforce good and extendable code so suggestions are welcome.

回答9:

I'd go so far as to say that you never (for most values of never) want to use free text as keys to anything. Imagine if SO used the query title as key to this page for instance. If someone links to it, and then the title is edited, the link is no longer valid.

Your problem is similar, except you would also be responsible for updating all links...

Like Douglas Leeder mentions, what you probably want to do is use English as the default (backup) language, although an interface that uses English and another language intermixed is highly confusing (but mildly amusing, too).

回答10:

In addition to the considerations above, there are many cases where you'd want the "key" (msgid) to be different from the source text (English). For example, in the HTML view, I might want to say [yyyy] where the destination and label of that anchor tag depend on the locale of the user. E.g. it might be a link to a social network, and in US it would be Facebook but in China it would be Weibo. So the MsgIds might be something like socialSiteUrl and socialSiteLabel.

I use a mix.

For basic strings that I don't think will have conflicts/changes/weird meanings, I'll make the key be the same as the English.